Consultations Homepage || Meeting Notes: 17 July 2003
Consultation with young Arab Muslims and Christians and non-Arab Muslims aged 20 - 29, Adelaide, 17 July 2003
The consultation was organised by Houssam Abiad and facilitated by Omeima Sukkarieh, HREOC (notes). Franco Parrella from the South Australian Equal Opportunity Commission also attended the meeting. Eight young people participated.
1. What are your experiences of discrimination and vilification?
Experiences with ASIO
Several participants had experienced ASIO interviews, most following anonymous calls in the wake of the January 2002 national security public campaign. One participant was visited twice at home by ASIO officers. On one occasion:
“They were talking about that terrorism advert that they showed on the TV. They asked me have you seen it and I said yeah. And they said to me ‘you’ve been dobbed in as a terrorist’. It didn’t click to me and I said, ‘Ok, no worries’. And then when it clicked, I said ‘You’re joking’. And he said ‘No, I’m serious’. … They asked questions like which mosque I go to, what do I do? They were being like, not mean but at the start they were being very suspicious. But when they get to talking to you, I just said them to them to come and look around the house and they were ok.”
On another occasion he was ‘reported’ following a visit by a group of Muslims to talk about Islam [called ‘Dawah’] with Muslim households.
“We go three days a month to different towns and we go to these towns to visit the Muslims there. I had some youth with me and we went to a house where he wasn’t Muslim, and he actually freaked out, and said ‘What are you doing? This is the second time you’ve come to my house.’ I said, ‘Sorry, we made a mistake, someone gave us the address, we thought you were Muslim’. So he actually called the police and that’s when [ASIO] came to our house.”
The questions posed seemed to indicate that the officers had a great deal of information about this participant already and also that they possibly hoped to recruit him as an informant.
“They were pretty cool, they were very nice. Basically they know everything, they’re just checking up. They started asking who comes over and who joins the Dawah and stuff. They said ‘Here’s our number and we’ll in keep in contact’.”
“They were helpful as in the fact that they said ‘If you feel anything or if anyone does anything against you then here’s our number, please call us.’ So they actually made us not feel offended or feel far away from them, but actually they can help us to a certain degree, so basically it felt like there was someone there we can call if there’s ever any trouble and we’ve got their business cards. Anyway, everything was fine with [ASIO]. They come and they leave and they’re doing their job. If you’re not doing nothing wrong then you’ve got nothing to fear. But if you’re doing something wrong and they come to your door, then you’re going to be shaking. In Australia, you can wear the Sunna clothing, you can have your beard, you can do everything you want, you’re not doing nothing wrong.”
Another participant was queried about an import of Qurans and compasses used to determine the direction of Mecca prior to praying.
“They were meant to be arriving at work and they were delayed. [ASIO interrupted the delivery.] ASIO called us at work and [were] asking questions about the purpose of the book deliveries and the purpose of the compasses and if there are any messages behind it, or is there a purpose behind the compasses or is there a direction they’re pointing to. Ever since then at work we’ve started to become a bit careful in regards to what you say on phones and things like that … After September 11 might have caused a lot of threats on both Arabs and Muslims indirectly. However, I think the main problem is that people are very illiterate about what Arabs are and what Islam is all about. They just assume the worst case scenario.”
One participant was amazed by the number of people in the room who had been approached by ASIO.
“Don’t you find that there’s something wrong here with the fact that nine Muslims in one room and three of you, who haven’t done anything wrong, have been approached [as if] you have done something wrong. I would like to know the figures of how many do get approached and how many have actually been found to have done something wrong out of those people, like what they’ve got out of the numbers that they have been approaching, and who they’re approaching.”
Experiences with the police
“[A cop] pulled me over initially because he wanted to defect me and like the way he was carrying on and the way he was talking to me ... He wasn’t actually talking to me, he was screaming at me like I was a kid. He screamed ‘Get out of the car’ like I did something wrong, and I was like ‘Fair enough, all right’. And I was getting out and I said ‘Take it easy, I’m out of the car’, and he just kept on going on and on. My car has already been through the registration and it has already been approved for all the extras and so legally I’m allowed. But this guy, obviously he was bored and he had nothing better to do. He saw this Arab looking guy with a beard in the car with blue lights inside of the car and thought ‘Let’s give this guy a go’. He was screaming and shouting and carrying on and towards the end, like I’m usually nice when police pull me over, but it got to a point where I said to him ‘What’s going on? Watch your language; watch the way you’re bloody talking to me’. And he just kept on going. I said ‘Do you know what your problem is? You’re racist! You’re picking on me because I’ve got a beard!’ Then I said ‘Right, you give me your badge number now and you can look forward to what’s going to happen tomorrow’. And that’s when he backed right off. He put his hand out and shook my hand and said ‘Don’t take it the wrong way’.”
When asked whether he really would have taken it further, this participant replies emphatically ‘Oh yeah!’ But when asked where he would have taken it, he said ‘I don’t know’.
“I got pulled over about a month ago, and I was speeding. I got stopped and he asked me to get out of the car, no dramas. He asked me for a breatho, and asked if I had been drinking and I said ‘No, I don’t drink’. He said ‘What do you mean you don’t drink?’ I said ‘I’m a Muslim, I don’t drink’. He said ‘Do you know how many guys I get saying they’re Muslims?’ He was being like all sarcastic about it.”
“My brother a couple of nights ago, driving home at about 9 o’clock, a police officer pulled him over. He wasn’t doing anything wrong or anything. Pulled him over and asked him for his license and his mirror had fallen off. So they defected him for his mirror and they only gave him one day to fix it and get it replaced and take it to the cop station and get the defect off. He explained that he worked full time and that wasn’t enough time to fix it. In the normal case, they give you three days normally to fix it. Maybe when they saw his license and his name, I don’t know.”
“I’ve got friends and relatives in Melbourne and Sydney. It’s probably ten-fold there [problems between police and Arab youth and their cars] being more Muslim or Arab. Here there’s a few Arabs that do have nice cars and do have run- ins with police officers but it’s probably ten-fold or twenty-fold in Melbourne or Sydney. A friend of mine from here who’s a Muslim, he went there and he was driving normally, and absolutely nothing wrong. And a police officer drove next to him, took one look at him and pulled him over. He said to him ‘What have I done?’ And the police officer said to him straight out ‘You haven’t done anything wrong, but it’s standard procedure’. Like he told him that it was standard procedure for them to pull them over, take their details down, details of the car, and then that’s it, see you later. They said it was for future purposes, like if something was to happen to that car or whatever, then they have the details of the guy. This was in Sydney. I think Arab youth in Adelaide, compared to Melbourne are more chilled out and relaxed and cops here know that and it does make a difference to the way they deal with you. It's hard to explain but in Melbourne and more so in Sydney, Arabs are looked at a lot worse than what they would be in Adelaide by the rest of the community.”
“I was driving the day after I reverted and I got pulled over by the police and he said, ‘Can I please check your license’, and I said, ‘No worries’. He is looking at my license and he is looking at me and because I had reverted I didn't have my hijab on in the license. He was looking at me and he said, ‘I'm going to have to ask you to take your headgear off’. I was saying I can't take it off. He said you have to take it off. I said I can't take it off in front of you because you’re not my husband. It was getting kind of... I was just waiting for him to grab it because he just gave me this frustrated moan. He looked like he was about to rip it off. And then something else happened he had to attend to and then he said, ‘You’re lucky I'm in a good mood today. I'll let you go into the license place and get your photo taken like that; otherwise you can't use that license’. I mean you can see my face in the license.”
Impacts on employment and contracts
“We’ve never had the immediate experience where we’ve had clients basically stop at us and say things like ‘you bloody Arab or Muslim and we’re not going to deal with you’. We haven’t had that and, on the contrary, we make it clear to most of our clients that we do come from an Arabic descent and we are Muslim, and that our behaviour is professional as possible. And they tend to show some appreciation and respect towards us once they get to know us. [In this way we] create a bit of education in regards to what Arabs are all about and what Muslims are all about. We have a lot of friends that are Australian, not Arab, and have actually approached us and said, ‘We really feel sorry for you guys and we can see the truth. How come no one else can see it?’ And it gives you a good feeling actually. It’s a very good feeling.”
“My parents own a take-away shop. If a customer comes in and for whatever reason they are not happy with something, then they just start throwing remarks and yes, some of them can be quite hurtful. … I have other family members who have got shops as well and it’s almost got to the point, so they don’t scare customers away, they will tend to not mention around the customers that they are Lebanese or they’re Arab or whatever. If they can just have the opportunity to get to know you a little bit, that goes a long way. If the customers don’t give you that opportunity, it’s sort of like the ignorant people that look at you and say ‘you bloody Arab’ or whatever, and that’s the end of it.”
A couple of the participants had tried door-to-door sales work and had found it impossible to succeed in rural areas because of their ‘Middle Eastern appearance’.
“Australians themselves like to deal with Australians. I mean not because they don’t like to deal with us or anything. We realise in our industry as well they trust you because they know you.”
“I went to Murray Bridge with another Lebanese guy [to do sales] and people literally were scared.”
One participant is a security guard who applied to work at the airport where wages are higher, job opportunities greater and the work relatively easy.
“And my boss looked at me and goes ‘No mate. We don’t want to discriminate, but you being at the airport…it’s just not happening.’”
This participant related another experience he has had while working as a security guard.
“Another time I was working at the reservoir and they need security there because at the water reservoir they said that terrorists are putting chemicals inside the water and that can affect everyone having showers. So I was working there and I walked up on my first day there and I knocked on the door and he [just pulled this face] and [he] goes ‘ID please’. I’ve got my uniform on and everything and no joke he asked for ID. I said ‘Excuse me mate, don’t you see my uniform?’ and he said ‘No, we’ve just got to do it’. But you know most of the time it’s ok.”
All participants understood the practical realities of these situations and accepted them in good humour.
“More than 50 % of the time it’s more a laugh you know, but you get those scenarios that aren’t.”
“I work in a pharmacy. My boss actually said to one of the customers, ‘She's converting to Islam you know’. And she goes, ‘Really? A nice girl like you?’ I'm like, ‘What's that supposed to mean?’ Then she said, ‘There was a girl down at Foodland and she converted and she just got so much shit from everybody. They were threatening to blow up her car because she was a terrorist and this and that, so she actually converted back to Christianity’. I'm like, ‘Oh, okay’. The lady's got so much nerve saying ‘A girl like you. You shouldn't do it, this and that - you will get people threatening you’. I just laughed.
“My bosses are, one’s Catholic and one’s Buddhist. When I told them I was converting to Islam they said ‘Okay, do you have to wear the veil?’ I said ‘I don’t have to but I want to’. So she said ‘Then don’t wear it to work. You’re not allowed to wear it to work’. I wasn’t going to anyway but then I said to myself ‘I want to wear it to do something’. [Bit it’s not allowed so] I just wear my uniform and put my hijab on. When I get there I take it off, go to work and as soon as I leave, I put it back on.”
Other experiences
Several other experiences of discrimination or abuse were briefly described.
“My dad wears the full on cap and the ‘abayeh’. We walked out of the front gate of my house and there was a car load of Aboriginals that drove past and they had the nerve to scream out of the window, ‘You bloody terrorists, go back to your country!’”
“[A friend] reverted to Islam and she comes from an Italian background, a Catholic family. Basically once she reverted back to Islam there were a lot of problems at home. Basically conflicting beliefs and the rest of it made it a very negative situation with her parents. Now neither her nor her parents could take it anymore, and then the girl moved out. Now she has applied for Centrelink benefits: Austudy. There are strict guidelines under which a person can get the independent rate and she has applied for the rate based on the fact that she can't stay at home because of the religious clash that has happened between her and her parents and basically if she had stayed home it would affect her studies, it would affect her emotionally, it would affect her mentally in a number of ways. She wasn't allowed to pray, she wasn't allowed to enter the house wearing a hijab. She had to take it off before entering the house and just things like that. Centrelink didn't acknowledge that that was a good enough reason for her to leave home and so they haven't allowed her to be entitled to any Centrelink benefits basically. She has appealed close to about six times to a number of different tribunals and still to no avail. Now she receives no benefits and even finding work is difficult.”
By way of contrast, a couple of participants reported having been ‘cheered on’ in a presumed terrorist fight against the USA.
“We get cheered on sometimes and people yell out ‘Osama!’ to all the boys in the car and it’s funny really. These people once at this service station they go ‘Hey, mate, mate!’ and we go ‘Yeah, what?’ and one of the guys says ‘F… America mate!’ And we’re like God forbid!”
Other impacts of contemporary prejudice
“When we go [to Dawah], we used to stay anywhere in Australia before, and we used to have the mosque to stay at. But now what’s happened is, because of these incidents, some mosques have said we can’t stay there. If we’re not doing anything wrong, we should be able to sleep in the mosque and do what we used to do, but what’s happening now is they [referring to the people at the mosques] say, ‘We want all of your addresses, all your names and everything’.”
“The reputation that they [Sydney Lebanese] have, we do get a fair few comments here. If you mention you’re Lebanese or whatever, straight away they bring up the stuff that happens in Sydney. In Adelaide it’s ok so far. But I believe in Sydney, Lebanese are pretty much right out the door. But it’s still a bit under control here because there are pretty good members of society – Arabs - who still hold pretty good reputations, pretty good jobs, they serve the community pretty well, and they’ve still got a bit of control in Adelaide itself. People know they’ve contributed here.”
“l reverted not long ago and it was hard explaining to my parents that I’ve reverted or what I believe in now. They just don't understand and no offense to Australians but they are very - like - whatever they’re told they believe in and they can’t change. When I first started I would get laughed at when I would walk in with it on. My brothers and my mum and dad would just look at me, shake their head and laugh. My parents have actually come around to it because of how dedicated l am. I just stood my ground and said look, I’m sorry, but this is what l believe in, and so they respect me now.”
Responding to discrimination and abuse
One participant counseled against reacting to abuse.
“If we turn around and we do something, as in swear at the people, then they get even more violent. Like one time there was a person who was drunk and came to my sister, and she’s wearing the hijab, and there was this aboriginal guy who came and protected her and he was like ‘sister, is this guy giving you any trouble?’, so if Allah (SWT) loves you, Allah (SWT) created everything in the world, and controls everyone’s heart; if you’re pleasing Allah (SWT), you’re praying five times a day, Allah will send someone to help you. If you’re keeping God happy basically, no-one can harm you, but if you’re going against the will of Islam, if you’re not praying your prayers and if you’re not following Islam, then there’s tests and trials that will come and this is what we believe. If we’d open our heart, if our love for the person is stronger than their hatred for us, trust me we’ll win over those people. This is what I believe in.”
Another participant reported that friends of his had made the decision to remove their hijabs.
“She and her sister have been wearing hijab for most of their life and after September 11th they have had some incidents basically at university and at school, that sort of stuff. They have actually gone without the hijab. Just to see that they have worn the hijab all through their young years - they are 22 and 23 - through the hard times and physical and mental challenges. They actually wore the hijab in front of their friends at school … They have done all that and they've, even up to this stage, they have just been so discriminated against by people. I don't know, maybe they got hurt somehow or feared but now they don't wear the hijab.”
This participant was determined that he would not make similar compromises.
“I have got one Muslim motivation that you don't go around by the name of Terry and Justin and Devon. I don't even try to change my name. People say on the phone ‘Can I call you Sam?’ and I say ‘No, not really you can't. I'd rather my name. That's what I'm called and that's what I want to be called’. I try to make a point to every single person that at the end of the day l am Muslim and I'm proud of who l am and believe it or not that's where the education starts and that's when people start to go like ‘Far out....cool...’.”
Avoidance is one response; in this case avoidance of media coverage that is considered insensitive or inaccurate
“We used to sit down and watch T.V. and news 24/7. I don't even turn the T.V. on anymore. It's just sickening because how can you just look at it and it’s not even making sense to you?”
2. What are the causes of anti-Arab and anti-Muslim prejudice and discrimination?
One participant made the important point that before planning what can be done to eliminate prejudice, the causes of prejudice should be identified. The discussion focused on the role and influence of the media.
“I think the main cause is actually the media. The media is what everybody uses and what they show, well that is the impression everybody is getting. Probably 99% is what they see on the T.V., read in the papers and hear off the radio, so I think there has to be something done there first in the way that Arabs or Muslims are being portrayed. It’s not just about working with the media to show a better image of Arabs or Muslims, it’s working with people to be critical or not so naive when it comes to the media.”
“We are basically trying to prove ourselves when we shouldn't even try to do that. The actual media itself is bringing something that's not lawfully right and it is causing us to explain ourselves. We shouldn't have to explain ourselves, we shouldn't have to prove that we're better than this because the actual media itself is bringing us to a level which we are trying to actually rise above. It is not an easy thing to do to prove yourself in a society where you’re a minority. It doesn't help when you’re a little group trying to make it to the big league. It is not an easy thing to do.”
“You know, what I think it comes down to is just being able to get a second side to the story, not just the one side you see on the media constantly. For example, during September 11th and also Afghanistan and the Iraq War, on T.V., you know the shows like ‘Law and Order’ and all those shows that never have an Islamic based story, all of a sudden every show that you flip on that comes out of Hollywood or wherever, has got some sort of Islamic undertone to it. And most of the time - not all of the time - the Muslim is like a criminal.”
Participants recognised that some shifts in awareness have occurred.
“I could also probably say that in the last maybe 12 to 18 months, l think I’ve started to see that there are some non-Arab people starting to accept that not everything they hear is the truth; questioning what is coming on the media and l think that is starting to come through but it's still a long way to go. I think that's starting to happen because at the end the truth can't be hidden forever, so eventually it's going to leak out. It only takes a little bit and only a few people to open their eyes and have a look at the real issue and it will grow and it will come out. But it is still way behind and there are certain groups who are still trying to push in the opposite direction.”
“Luckily there are reporters who do show the other side. It’s just that people don’t know about them because their stories are always buried somewhere.”
However, the power of the media and the fundamental difficulties of challenging that power were identified as major issues.
“I think the media is a voice for big players in world politics and whatever those big players put on the media is to justify their cause, whatever it may be. And I think what they have done in my opinion is to create a common enemy to the world and in my opinion, that enemy that they have created is Islam as a religion and Islam as a way of life and the people who follow Islam are a threat to those political powers. They want people to fear Islam and to fear the people who follow Islam and live that way of life so they can justify their cause, whatever it may be.”
“And I think after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the leaders of the western world have felt that Islam or Muslims are the biggest threat to their society. It's got a lot to do with the new world order, and I reckon that the government, that's how it fights this threat, through the media. All that sort of control comes from the higher authorities and I think that it's going to take a lot to sort of [make it better].”
“When they have a basic enemy, they - people in power - use the media to discredit that community as much as possible and make people fear that enemy as well so they can get the sympathy of the public community to do what they need to do basically at the end of the day. That's what the media is.”
3. What more could be done to fight anti-Arab and anti-Muslim prejudice and discrimination?
One participant explained what he could do individually and with his friends and community.
“At the end of the day, no matter what politicians say about Islam or whatever the case is, there is always going to be a positive and a negative … They might lift you up and then bring you back down and at the end of the day it's what you do to yourself, your community and the way you portray yourself that counts. What would leave a mark on people and will make them realise that being Lebanese or Arab or Muslim or being any sort of nationality have actually got a good implication on society. The more good you do with goodness is why people start saying ‘Look at this Muslim doctor helping people out or that Arab engineer’. The only thing we can do is change our little society, our little world, our friends around us and the people we deal with daily. These are the things we can affect and change effectively as well and when we work with them it will make it easier for us to live.
“I'd be very interested in holding or contributing to holding seminars for people who are out there that are actually wanting to know about what being an Arab or being Muslim is. Maybe information seminars that can be held for people that are interested and just market it. You've got to just go out there and explain to them what you are all about. And again that's working through community groups. That's the only thing we are capable of doing unless they give me a couple of million dollars...”
There was support for the extension of anti-discrimination laws, both federally and in South Australia, to make religious discrimination and vilification unlawful.
“Why would anyone not want it in there? The law definitely needs to change. It needs to protect minorities!”
The legal protection should extend to the media.
“There needs to be more regulation with the media. It's way more important. Regulations and laws are obviously important but people have that discrimination in them because they are well educated by the media, so that actual ignorance won't exist if there are regulations. I reckon they need a responsible governing body to look at it.”
“Maybe it’s a case of putting some sort of governing body that has to have the material put through them before it gets approved to go on TV.”
The need for external regulation of the media was underscored by the fact that community responses, such as complaints or letters to the editor, have so little influence.
“I think there needs to be some kind of board or committee that’s set up to respond to all the stuff that happens in the media. There are so many badly written articles, and not just in the newspapers but even in women’s magazines like Cleo and Dolly and no-one responds and that's what kills me. If people stood up and said I'm going to write to the editor and say, ‘Look, you've given people the wrong information; you need to be more aware of what you’re writing’. There have been articles that have been printed in Cleo about female circumcision saying that it's an Islamic practice when it isn't and people have responded, they haven't printed it but how come there is no board against discrimination to stop this?”
“Okay, but if for instance you were to write back, I don't think that it would make a difference. I think what they need initially is someone to do all that stuff to start with, some sort of governing body to say, ‘No, this article is biased or discriminatory or whatever and it needs to be altered in order to be put in or don't put it in’. These articles put in these magazines and on news are there to lift the ratings of these magazines. These articles are sold purely for the purpose that they have got a story in them that is reflecting something not true.”
Participants recognised that it is the popular channels and, by extension, popular press which need to change to reflect more the diversity of Australia.
“All those sort of [positive educational] programs are only ever aired on SBS and ABC and nobody watches. If just one of those shows, for half an hour, was aired on Seven, Nine or Ten, that would open the eyes of so many people. Why are they always on SBS and ABC, which nobody watches?”
