Consultations Homepage || Meeting Notes: 16 June 2003
Consultation hosted by the Anti-Discrimination Commission of Queensland (ADCQ) and Multicultural Affairs Queensland (MAQ), Brisbane, 16 June 2003
The meeting was chaired by Ms Susan Booth, Anti-Discrimination Commissioner Queensland. It was attended by 15 invited participants. Dr Bill Jonas, Acting Race Discrimination Commissioner, and Omeima Sukkarieh attended from HREOC.
Dr Jonas made the following points in an opening address
The Isma project was initiated because racism and prejudice against Arab and Muslim Australians continue to be a serious problem in Australia. The consultations involve meeting with Arabic and Islamic community organisations and individuals across Australia to discuss their experiences, their needs and their opinions about existing and future strategies for overcoming prejudice and discrimination.
The project involves research as well as consultation. The research component involves finding out about existing strategies and programs which are in place federally and at a State or Territory level, that aim to counter anti-Arab and anti-Muslim prejudice. HREOC is asking government and community agencies across Australia to evaluate existing projects and identify what more could be done.
HREOC has also commissioned a survey from researchers at the University of Western Sydney. The survey will ask community members in NSW and Victoria about their experiences of discrimination, vilification and other racially-motivated incidents and also whether the incident was officially reported. If it was, we need to get feedback on how seriously the complaint was treated, how effectively it was dealt with and whether there was any resolution. In cases where the incident was not reported (the majority, we expect) we need to understand the reasons why not.
The project is the beginning of a longer term process of engagement for HREOC. In large part we are consulting to obtain information to assist us in changing our practices, adopting new approaches and developing new projects to combat racism. Already, for example, there has been a lot of support for including religious discrimination and religious vilification in the federal anti-discrimination laws.
Ms Hurriyet Babacan, Executive Director, Community Outcomes Branch, Department of the Premier and Cabinet, made the following points in her opening address
Ms Babacan’s Branch covers multicultural affairs among other issues. The Premier is also the Minister of Multicultural Affairs in Queensland. Key planks of the Multicultural Queensland Policy are valuing diversity and promoting opportunity, access and participation.
Australia is generally considered very good at settling migrants and welcoming new arrivals and to have a very good multicultural mixed population. However, there are often hidden prejudices and sometimes those hidden prejudices come out at critical times. Some of those critical times include economic hardship, unemployment, social change, war and conflict around the world. Those are just some of the problems that impact on discrimination and the acceptance of difference.
Anti-Discrimination Commissioner Susan Booth made the following points in her opening address
Queensland law makes race and religious vilification and discrimination unlawful, unlike the situation in NSW or at the federal level. Nevertheless the threshold is very high in Queensland – requiring proof of severe ridicule. The federal threshold would be preferable.
The first religious vilification case brought in Queensland involved an allegation that a candidate in a State election had published a brochure which vilified Muslims. The Tribunal found that it was vilification and the words which took the Koran completely out of context can’t possibly have been anything other than vilification. However, the candidate was covered by the exemptions because (1) during an election campaign there is a heightened ability to discuss such issues which is protected under the Australian Constitution and (2) the candidate had done so in good faith.
Some of the reasons given by community members for not making a formal complaint have included ‘I don’t want to seem ungrateful to my new country’; ‘I’ve been vilified but I want to contribute in a positive way’; ‘I want to succeed. I want my family to succeed. I also don’t want other members from my community to think that I’m a whinger by bringing a complaint’.
It is possible now for a representative community organisation to bring a complaint of vilification so that the burden is not on the individual any longer.
In the period after September 11th ADCQ knew a lot of vilification was going on, but people did not know the Commission well enough or there was not enough trust there or the relationships were not strong enough for them to come and complain. Education and outreach are needed to build awareness and trust.
ADCQ has run a series of anti-racism training sessions in community languages and has published vilification cards in five community languages [referring to the ‘Know your Rights’ cards].
The meeting then opened up to discussion among the participants
The first speaker referred to the broader context of prejudice in Australia.
“Going back fifteen years ago when I came to Australia, things were happening then but of course since September 11th it’s just the history. At meetings we talk about acknowledging traditional owners and then we move on. But in reality this land is under occupation. So that in itself generates a lot of these issues where I think the government establishes that domination and that control over this land and continues that by victimising individuals more than groups. Really they are asserting power over the traditional caretakers of this land. So I think there is something to be done in regards to something like a treaty that brings up that issue of who the land actually belongs to. And then if we have that, then we might actually see that all of us will be welcomed here on an equal basis. From my experiences when I first came to Australia I was in the Townsville area and there it was for me dreadful to see what was happening to Aboriginal people. What was happening to me was ridiculous: I couldn’t get a unit to live in, I had to bond everything I had, a job even, I couldn’t get a credit card, all of those sort of things. It was clear discrimination. I suppose for me is that we have to do something about the bigger picture otherwise we are all in the same boat.”
Later, other participants referred to the impact of 11 September and also the additional impact of the Bali bombing.
“Racism in Queensland and indeed Australia is not from September 11th. It was much before. But now they have the license to say it in the open because of September 11th. They are the same people but they didn’t dare to say it before. Now they say these people in the Middle East are terrorists and we have the right to tell the public.”
“You have this in every country. Before September 11th I have lived here and had a normal life and maybe one out of hundred would come and give a story like that. Now I drive a taxi as well and now you get about ninety out of one hundred. They will not just tell you that you sound different. They will not look at you like you are a human. They look at you like all the Muslims are involved with it [i.e. terrorism].”
Experiences of prejudice, discrimination and abuse
Threats and harassment
“Since September 11th the problem has extended, before that I have never had that experience over here. I have driven a taxi, I have run a restaurant… we have a restaurant in New Farm and we have gone through about fifty to sixty phone calls, people threatening, people coming in with sticks. The police know about it and we have made a few complaints.”
“A couple of years ago we [Muslim Women’s Association of Queensland] were working with Brisbane City Council to get our first own premises and we were working hard for six months. We wanted to renovate the place and were really looking forward to it, then there was a meeting in the neighbourhood where we were asked to introduce ourselves and it went very well and the last week before getting into the premises, we got graffiti on the premises and because it’s a hut in the middle of the Park we were so feared to get to those premises and then it was to who do we complain to, what can we do so we gave up.”
Discrimination at school
“What is worrying me is what is happening in schools. A lot of it is very clear and obvious and a lot of it is not. Knowing that a lot of the young people from different groups are being targeted and they are being harassed. Some of them are showing up by reacting and fighting, not wanting to go to school, staying away, some are put on drugs as they are seen as depressed.”
Discrimination in the workforce
“If you apply for a job and you do not get it they do not say it is discrimination. But I see a lot of it. Maybe it is not just against Arabs and Muslims. Maybe it is just against those who do not speak English as a native language. I am driving a taxi now and I see a lot of people from other nations. Everyone who is not from an English speaking country, they cannot get a job easily here. When I was at a University two years ago I overheard the receptionist saying to a friend that ‘the bloody wog got the job’.”
“I have finished my degree but I haven’t faced any problems during Uni, but in getting jobs I do. You send in your C.V. and if they send anything back it usually says you are overqualified. They don’t ask you for an interview. They ask you for your name, place of study…and that’s where it stops. The situation for Arabs and Muslims was worse after the Bali bombing because it was more personal for Australians.”
Allegations against the police
“The Logan Youth and Family Services produce cards on their rights and give them to young people and they (the kids) were picked up in the streets by police and made to eat the cards.”
“Police officers are the worst offenders. Last month I was at the road and a car in the side lane came in front of me and I had to use my brakes and horn to warn him to stop me from being killed. A police officer on a motorbike stopped both of us and took us to a side street. Then he said that I must apologise to him [the other driver]. I said ‘But he broke the law of traffic. He was going to kill me’. He said ‘You have to apologise to him’. But I said ‘I did nothing wrong’. But he insisted I must apologise. I told him who I was and said I will get your number and let us talk about it. He said ‘Ok you go’. I said ‘No. You book him for changing lane without indicating’. He said ‘I didn’t see that’. I said ‘You saw me blowing the horn but you didn’t see him jumping in front of me and me having to use the my car’s best brakes possible to avoid within one inch collision?’ He said ‘I didn’t see it’. I said ‘Really?’ I know my rights, so I asked him for his name and went to the high authorities. So I think it is about educating the authorities who see nothing and hear nothing. If I go to a police officer and say that man offended me and he is negative, he will not do anything. So next time I won’t complain because the police do not do anything. I have threatened to take more action before. I know my rights and I stick to them and fight for them. Not everyone is lucky enough to have contacts. People get to the point where they take the law into their own hands.”
“A lot of people do not have that courage, people coming from countries where they do not practise their abilities to stand in front of policemen even to tell them half of what you said. Unfortunately some of the experiences we have been recording are road rage and wearing the veil. What I do is take the number and go to the police station and give them the number and the details. When I went to the station, the police officer wasn’t that friendly until I told him I am part of the Police Advisory Committee. He was then looking and saying that the details of the car do not exist. I say ‘I’m sorry I know what I’m talking about. I gave you all the details. I am part of the Police Advisory Committee and I am going to complain’. He said ‘I will follow it up’.”
At home
“My neighbours told me last night that someone like Bin Laden came to see you. I didn’t let it go and so I educated them and they apologised.”
“About two months ago a lady going to the school nearby parked in my driveway. I told her to move her car then she said ‘I’ll send you back to where you came from’. So I took a photo of her car to give to the police.”
In public places
“Myself and my husband since September have been abused in the city square several times and in one instance a man threw rocks at us and cut my niece’s face. In face to face situations it is harder to combat. Knowing your rights in these cases doesn’t help because the perpetrator is not known.”
“Yesterday I had an interesting experience. Most people when they see me think that I am from overseas. I got off the plane in Sydney and as I was walking this fella was walking alongside me. He was trying to be nice and he spoke to me like I was someone from overseas. It was in a loud voice and he was gesturing. And I spoke back and said ‘G’day mate. How’s it going?’ And he kind of stepped back. I have had some horror stories. A young woman was saying to me she was born here and she has had people come up to her and say ‘Why don’t you go back to the country where you were born?’.”
In the media
“The biggest problem we have is media. Especially when we went to war in Afghanistan and we went to war in Iraq, the media explained it wrongly to the people. They went the wrong way about it. If we could do something about that and let the people know exactly what happens over there and that this has nothing to do with the Muslims, especially the Taliban. Taliban and Muslims are not the same thing.”
“It is important to educate service providers, students and teachers but the media is the problem as they create the perception as to the average Mr and Mrs Suburbia. They are fearful of difference and that is what we have to break down. The media is making it worse. It is frightening.”
The impacts of prejudice and discrimination
“I think at the moment there is a lot of focus on the individuals. ASIO, refugees, Camp X-Ray…generally we are living a culture of fear. And in this culture of fear we try to encourage some sort of activism or stand up for your rights. I think we are probably seeing more kind of underground movements which in terms of fear are radical. They are going underground because this is what we are pushing them to do because we are not operating as an open society.”
Complaints processes
Complaints procedures were criticised as unfamiliar and daunting.
“They have these laws but for the average person in the street it’s trying to access something that is not accessible. Me being confident and being in the organisation I am in, it took me a lot of people who I knew to go to, to get to a point where somebody was prepared to say we will take it on from here. For me not knowing the legal system was quite a frightening thing. And people said ‘Oh he’s gone down that path! Watch what you are doing.’ So I suppose for me it is what can we do to simplify these things so the average person gets a chance to lodge a complaint and see something get done about it. Otherwise people will just give up. It’s frightening for those who know the legal system, so how is it for those who don’t?”
“My friend, like many people comes from a background where she does not have the right talk and then suddenly facing all this discrimination in the street here because she dresses in traditional clothes and not being able to speak in the Australian accent then she is facing discrimination everywhere. She is frightened to drive the car by herself. I see the positive side also from all the support from the different organisations, from the police and from the anti discrimination people, they are still trying to help us but we are still in the beginning.”
“There are processes I think around this table too we should also know that here is a Crime and Misconduct Commission and I was surprised when I went to the IDC [inter-departmental committee] meeting at the Premiers Department a couple of months back that so many of the public servants around that table didn’t know about how to make a complaint. I thought well these people are representing the wider community and they don’t know. So I think the complaint mechanism, the carrot and the stick approach and the complaint mechanism must be disseminated.”
Community organisation strategies to empower community members and combat prejudice
“The Islamic Women’s Association is encouraging women to stand up for their rights and to set an example. Part of our objective is to give an opportunity for Islamic women to work where they have difficulty, to work in other areas.”
Government strategies to empower community members and combat prejudice
The following exchange about the Queensland Premier’s public support for the Arab and Muslim communities in that state is instructive.
“Talking about roles in the media and the government, they went to this Anti Racism Reference Group at the Premiers Department and they keep asking ‘Why is the Premier not doing something?’ He is there, like this reference group is there, to react the next time there is a bomb somewhere. He is relaying information through the reference group but the message is not getting across. There are little media releases that are known about. But the reality on a day to day basis is that the Premier is silent.”
“I think you are wrong there. I think he is probably more proactive than any other Premier in Australia.”
“I wouldn’t say that. When was the last time you saw him, you know, going after in media and you know actually push one off?”
“The media is the media. You can’t control it.”
“No. I’m saying how many media releases have you seen since September 11th in terms of Queensland and multiculturalism?”
“And there are people complaining or being very concerned that they do not know anything about what the premiers are saying.”
“In terms of the media you and I and some people around here read a lot of newspapers. And we read in between the lines and what is the real story. But there are frightened people out there in the suburbs who read it as it is and how do they access it?”
“I don’t want to be defensive at all but since September 11th the Premier was immediately aware of the danger of a backlash. So the response to it was immediate. Statements were made by the Premier, by Ministers, by Principals, by Mayors, by community leaders to say that any backlash to the Islamic community would not be accepted. It didn’t rate much attention in the media. The media release was certainly prepared [but] the media focused initially on another angle of the story. But the Premier led with another strategy which was through word of mouth leadership in making sure that community leaders, Mayors, Ministers were saying to their spheres of influence that this is a time for Queenslanders to come together not to fall apart. That was the same message which went out after Bali. The fact that the media doesn’t pick up the story is the age old issue of how do you work with the media in a way which is going to promote the issue beyond the word of mouth. That’s a difficult one. I don’t know if we will ever get that right answer because the media is an independent voice that doesn’t necessarily do what governments want it to do. If it did in fact we would be really worried.”
“In the same media release that talks about harmony it also talks about how our arms and airports are in danger and the media picks that part of it up and says our airports are in danger but there is nothing that talks about harmony…”
“Unfortunately harmony doesn’t sell very well. There are some things that are not in the Premier’s control like the media, but some he does like schools and Education Queensland. He has probably the biggest control about giving direction to other government agencies, to make sure that people or teachers employed under that particular structure have got the right ideas about multiculturalism.”
The hotline established by the Queensland government in the days after 11 September 2001 was briefly mentioned.
“It was un-useful. I was at a function where the Premier said he received sixteen complaints and he decided to disband the hotline because the most serious complaint was from a British man who resented being called a Pom. That was his statement.”
“Mainly it is because people generally of non-English speaking backgrounds don’t complain.”
Police initiatives in working with an Islamic community organisation and with an Islamic school were favourably referred to. The Youth Affairs Network and the Queensland Commissioner for Children are working in partnership to provide advocacy training to youth workers. The Anti-Discrimination Commissioner has alerted Queensland newspaper editors to a NSW Anti-Discrimination Board study of reporting on Arabic and Muslim people and community issues (Race for the Headlines). ADCQ will provide training to community organisations on its new racial, religious, sexuality and trans-gender vilification provisions.
What more could be done to fight anti-Arab and anti-Muslim prejudice and discrimination?
Need for political leadership
“The big concern is that out there, there is discrimination in our schools and our government services and the difficulty is to get people to make a complaint. I think we need to hear it from the highest levels in government not only from Premiers, [also] from the chief executives, that this sort of behaviour is unacceptable. In order to get complaints, leaders at a national level need to speak publicly about the issue and denounce loudly all acts of discrimination.”
With respect to a Courier Mail front page said to have called “all people who were not Anglo Celtic the Forces of Darkness” and NSW MP Fred Nile’s comments about Muslim women wearing chador:
“If the government was to emphasise to everyone this is not acceptable anymore, and tell the newspapers, perhaps this will work. Governments need to educate down the line.”
Senior bureaucrats’ public representations were also seen as significant.
“One of the conditions of employment [should be] to know the law before they speak to the public. Once they know that the government is applying these rules, this would make everyone know that it is not black sheep white sheep.”
“You also have to make sure that senior public servants, chief executives, are saying what we are saying at this level. It’s no good for it to be said at a policy level. It’s got to be said right up there. There should also be a reward and promotion for people in public services. We’ve got to put the record that it should be part of their problem initially. Or alternatively they won’t get promoted if they don’t understand the management of diversity and that is the case in a number of departments.”
Cultural awareness training for all service-providers
“Regarding cultural awareness, I have been trying to raise this with the Education Department. There are actually no mandatory requirements for teachers to go through any cultural awareness. Even the Health Department has something where you actually can’t do any health work before you do that. But we are happy to have our teachers take our students and have no cultural awareness! None at all. The individual schools do whatever they want. So if you get a racist principal, you will get racist teachers. And some schools have ownership over them by racist principals. So we need a centralised model: some of this stuff has to come centrally.”
“As service providers we must be culturally confident. There must be some criteria that say, if you want to be a sergeant, teacher or a police officer, what do you know about cultural issues and how do you demonstrate that confidence. I think the University of Sydney medical school is looking for that in Doctors now. If doctors are looking at why are the rest of them not? It is not enough to be aware and tolerant. You’ve got to be confident otherwise you are wasting your time.”
Need for personal contacts
“There is a big war between the Muslims and the Muslim countries and that mostly is because of media. To fix this you have to pass this to the everyday Australian living around the corner. I have invited all the neighbours in my house. I have shown them the video of what exactly happened in Afghanistan. I have actually gone through one hundred years of history with them and why there is a war. Why it has taken so long. Why there is still a war. And they have a lot of information from me now which they can pass on. That is the only thing you can do, give knowledge to the normal people living next door.”
“We need to show our humanity and take time to sit around a table with people, and then you will get a lot more people on side and saying that they are caring about me as a human being. They understand me as a person and therefore I will listen to what they have to say. I believe - and I don’t mean any particular department - that we have not done enough of that.”
“I agree. I am in an Islamic women’s group who sometimes get 20-25, sometimes get 60. The successful meeting is always when people come from government. A successful one was when the Police came to the centre and we talked to them about our fears and concerns. It makes them feel like they are very important and that’s why people come to talk to them. It empowers the women.”
“Commonality needs to be built and having an open frank discussion about how we can share it.”
Need to review complaints procedures
“When you are talking about complaints you have to make sure that they feel comfortable first. It’s not about whether they complain or not. They talk to workers, they talk to leaders, [with assistance] they do directly complain. But somehow if they have to go through structure by structure then they hesitate. It’s daunting for them.”
Need to contact community members not in touch with community organisations
“It’s important to get these people not represented by any organisation or group through places of first contact, such as Legal Aid, Centrelink, Universities, Settlement Services, and many more. Go where new arrivals go. There are places for instance Goondiwindi where there is cotton picking work and different people tend to go there at particular times of year where you might get one particular group where a lot of them are not informed about their rights. You need to follow people’s trends at particular times. So we need to try and use other people’s resources to get the message across.”
Need to contribute positively to Australia’s future
“As victims we cannot always defend ourselves. We have to think positively for building Australia, through educating ourselves and our people how we may behave. If you are innocent no-one can put you down. Think positive how you may build Australia as an Australian. Everybody is a migrant - even the Australians. Think always positively, how we may build Australia as good people. Then if I am not Australian then I am respected by Australians, I am welcomed by Australians. I had problems in my communities and I restored it through good ways, my love, true love. I cannot put my enemy in front of me and consider him an enemy. I consider him my friend. Otherwise we will always talk about discrimination, but we may have no answer. Think only how we may build Australia positively. Educate our people to behave well, that’s all. If you cannot have any job go to Centrelink and they will find a job for you. It’s easy. We need patience. You have to prove that you are Australian and that you are useful. And if you are useful, everyone will respect you and accept you.”
Concluding discussion
“There are people saying to us that ‘If you can’t be like us, then what are you doing here?’ What do we say in response?”
“I get asked ‘You’ve been here for 20 years and you’re still wearing that [referring to the hijab]?’”
“We need to keep focusing on and talking about good experiences.”
“A lot of people believe that you should not speak another language, for example that it’s rude to speak another language. People don’t understand that you need to sometimes speak another language because the person who you are talking to may not understand English.”
“Maybe people in taxis are afraid of taxi drivers because they speak another language to others while they have passengers.”
“When we are sitting in the park and talking amongst each other, it happened a lot that people are afraid and so discriminate against us. We should be as a nation encouraging kids to speak other languages.”
“It is a multicultural society so we need to respect that it is also a multilingual society too.”
