28^th February 2000

Mr David Mason

Secretary

E-commerce reference

Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission

GPO Box 5218

SYDNEY NSW 1042

Dear Mr Mason

The COA congratulates the Attorney General and Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission on conducting this inquiry, as its outcomes will have potentially great significance for older Australians.

The Committee on Ageing (COA) would like to put forward a brief submission to be considered by HREOC in the preparation of its final report. The Committee on Ageing has a number of concerns about older people's access to electronic commerce and new service and information technologies.

The Committee on Ageing advises the NSW Government, through the NSW Minister for Ageing, on matters affecting the needs, interests and well-being of older people in NSW. Its role includes advising the Government on the effect of social and demographic change on older people and providing independent advice to the Government in relation to policies affecting older people. The members of the Committee come from diverse backgrounds and have skills and expertise which enable them to contribute to many different areas of public policy.

The Committee regularly conducts consultations with older people, including in rural areas, with indigenous older people and older people of non-English speaking backgrounds. It also publishes reports on a range of topics.

Issues of access to essential services and to information, sometimes now only available via new technologies, and concern about the impact of new technologies on older people, have been raised at a number of the Committee's consultations, especially in rural areas.

The COA notes from the Issues Paper and Progress Update available on the HREOC website, that the a wide range of issues have already been brought to the attention of the inquiry. The comments that follow are therefore fairly brief.

As pointed out in the Progress Update, the issue of access to the new technologies and information and services available via these technologies, is one that affects the whole community, if not now at some time in the future. While older people and people with disabilities are a minority at any given point in time, there is hardly anyone in the community who will not be personally affected by disability or ageing (or both) at some stage in their lives.

There is a considerable overlap between 'older people' and 'people with disabilities'. Over half of older people living in NSW report having one or more disabilities. Around 40% of people in their 60s have a disability, rising to 49% among people aged 70-74, 61% among people aged 75-79, 64% among those aged 80-84 and a high 83% among people aged 85 and over.

While new technologies may potentially offer many benefits to older people (with and without disabilities), and by no means all disabilities will cause access difficulties, it is clear that there is a significant number of older people whose disabilities may hinder access to the new technologies unless steps are taken to take their needs, wants and preferences into account as these technologies are developed.

It also should be noted that many older people who have significant restrictions in what they can do, do not identify themselves as a person 'with a disability'. As a result they may miss out on opportunities offered by 'disability access policies'. For example, banks have offered various fee exemptions for people with disabilities who cannot use electronic banking facilities. They advertise the exemptions as being for people with disabilities and have generally failed to let older people know that these exemptions are available to them if they too cannot use electronic banking facilities because of a disability. A 1999 report by the National Information Centre on Retirement Investments commissioned by the Commonwealth Department of Family and Community Services on pensioner deeming accounts explored this issue (see Department of FACS website) and recommended greater disclosure by banks of their fee exemption policies.

It is assumed in some quarters that the problem of access to new technologies is a transitional one that will eventually disappear as the current generation of retired people is replaced by a new generation that is familiar and comfortable with the technology. To some extent this may be true. However, it overlooks the fact that as people age they may develop disabilities that prevent them from using the new technologies; also that technological change will doubtless be ongoing.

Problems with manual dexterity caused by arthritis and other conditions, poorer eyesight and hearing are extremely common in older age groups and can make it very difficult to use keypads, keyboard, computer screens and interactive voice systems even for people who have been comfortable using them. For example, a routine task such as entering a 10 digit number on a normal keyboard or telephone key pad, may become difficult to do accurately.

For the 29.8% of older people who suffer partial or complete deafness, communication via the telephone can particularly difficult. Eyesight problems that cannot be corrected by glasses are also very common and may make use of computers, EFTPOS and ATMs difficult. For example, among veterans and war widows, 18% report blindness or serious trouble seeing even with glasses. Another study reported that two-thirds of older people living in the community had moderately impaired eyesight even when corrected by glasses.

It should also be stressed that the older population is as heterogeneous as the rest of the community. The 'older population' spans two generations, people with widely differing financial and other resources, personal skills and approaches to life. These differences may be extremely important determinants of people's access to and ability to use and attitudes towards the new technologies. Within the older population there are many people who are enthusiastic users (or potential users) of the new technology, and others who are the opposite.

There are also sub-groups within the older population who may face particular difficulties including people of non-English speaking backgrounds, Aboriginal people and people with low literacy. Some within these groups may have difficulty using, or do not have easy access to, a telephone, let alone a computer connected to the internet.

There is also a concern that the low levels of workforce participation among people in their 50s and early 60s means that there is a substantial group of people coming up to 'retirement age' without work-based opportunities to develop and maintain computer literacy.

Many older people, particularly those in older age brackets, feel anxious about – as they see it – new technologies being forced on them and other traditional ways of doing business or accessing information being withdrawn. Many feel overwhelmed and bewildered by the pace of change, lack confidence in their ability to keep up and are frightened by the unfamiliarity of it all. For people in their 70s and above, the new banking technologies, widespread use of personal computers, email and the Internet have all become commonplace since they retired and left the workforce.

Some older people also express concern that the new technologies may contribute to exacerbating the already high levels of loneliness and isolation among older people. Recent statistics indicate that people over 65 who live alone (32% of all older people) already spend 79% of their waking hours alone. While for some older people, electronic means of communication may revolutionise their ability to keep in contact with geographically distant family members and friends and to access some services, others see the introduction of e-commerce as reducing the opportunities for older people to interact personally with others in their communities.

A sense of independence is extremely important to older people's wellbeing and self esteem. Where new technologies facilitate and enable their ability to live independent and fulfilling lives, they will be embraced with enthusiasm (assuming there are no major cost or other barriers). However, if new technologies increase the dependence of older people on others, they will not be supported. New technologies that leave older people more dependent on others cannot be regarded as progress.

To take an example from the area of banking, older people who have difficulty coping with remembering a PIN number and who as a result have to ask someone else to do their banking for them, regard the old style of passbook banking at a branch counter as offering them greater independence and convenience than ATMs or EFTPOS. By contrast, enabling a physically frail older person to use new banking technologies to pay bills and check their account balance from home may increase their sense of independence and control as they do not have to ask someone else to do it for them.

As mentioned by Ros Foskey and quoted in the Progress Update, if older people have to rely on others to do their banking, they may become more vulnerable to financial exploitation.

The experience of the introduction of new banking technologies illustrates the difficulties of relying on the market to ensure that all sections of the population have access to services. While older people are numerically a significant section of the population, from the perspective of banks, most older people are small customers with low or modest balances. Bank officers have said publicly that banks are not there to provide a 'welfare service' and have hinted that they would not mind losing their non-profitable older customers to competitors. Thus, the incentive for banks to tailor their banking services and the design of ATMs, EFTPOS, phone and internet banking to older people's needs, is not great. The results of this area are clear and were demonstrated in the focus groups conducted for the inquiry.

In addition to the barriers mentioned at 1.1 in the Progress update, older people are sometimes also greatly concerned about personal safety, the security of their funds and privacy issues. Lack of trust in the system and lack of knowledge of how EFTPOS works, for example, leads to concerns that a person's account could be accessed later on by the retailer, or that a direct debit or bill payment will not go through.

Many older people prefer the personal touch of face to face banking, are reluctant to use ATMs, EFTPOS, phone and internet banking and frankly do not see the benefits of doing so. The convenience of ATMs, EFTPOS, phone and internet banking, the ability to access funds or transfer money at any time of day or night, do not have great appeal and the disadvantages and barriers to using them are seen as considerable.

Notwithstanding this, there is also a great deal of evidence that many older people are receptive to using new banking technologies and are attracted by some of its features so long as they are given appropriate support to learn in a non-threatening environment.

A number of relatively minor alternations in design could also make a difference to the ease with which older people could use the technology - for example, physical design changes to take into account the greater problems older people have with glare, poorer contrast sensitivity and depth perception and reduced manual dexterity. Not assuming computer literacy and familiarity with words such as 'menus' and 'logging in' would also assist in overcoming some people's initial fears about using new technologies.

Adaptive technology that takes into account the disabilities commonly suffered by older people needs to be made more available to older people and could be further developed to meet their needs.

It is also important that older people's concerns about security of their finances and personal safety (for example, at ATMs) are taken seriously by service providers and addressed.

Simple strategies like providing written information in plain English and larger font sizes about how to use the technologies would also assist. Such material should be tested on the target audiences to ensure readability and acceptability.

The submission by the Council on the Ageing (COTA) makes a number of very important points about access to information by older people, supported by the COA.

While the internet and other new technologies potentially offer many advantages in the provision of information – for example, more access points and cheaper updating – easier access to a huge amount of "information" does not in itself ensure that older people will be able to find the particular information that they need to make informed choices and decisions about services and products.

For example, finding information about government services on the internet, as well as requiring skills in using the technology and access to it, often assumes a level of knowledge about what services might be on offer, the terminology used and the level of government involved.

Unless information is provided in the internet in such a way that takes into account older people's information seeking behaviour and their existing knowledge, interest and perspectives on the topic, the internet may not offer significant advantages over previous methods of information provision. As mentioned in COTA's submission, older people tend not to be active information seekers, rather obtaining information in incidental ways and preferring not to have to actively ask for or seek it. A preference among older people for local sources of information ahead of national 1800 or 13 phone numbers, has also been reported.

Moreover, there is concern that some many older people's effective access to information may decrease, if provision via the internet becomes the norm and access to the technology and familiarity and confidence in using it, is assumed.

Businesses and governments that provide information about or access to their services via the internet have a clear responsibility to 1) ensure that older people are given the training and support to access the services and information and 2) provide other avenues of access for older people who are not able (for whatever reason) to use the internet.

A number of submissions to HREOC have outlined the various means by which older people are being encouraged and supported to learn about and become enthusiastic users of the new technologies.

The COA believes that it is very important that educational and other strategies be further developed and supported financially, by both governments and the business sector. The COA supports the suggestions made in the Progress update.

Unfortunately, some older people's experience of computer courses, such as those run through TAFE Colleges or Community Colleges, has been very unsatisfactory. Typically, these courses have a set curriculum and time frame which does not cater for an older person who is not able to cope with the speed of the presentation and may find it difficult to put their questions into words in the time available. In such circumstances, older people may quickly fall behind, their self esteem plummets and they withdraw from the course convinced that learning to use a computer is beyond them.

However, as demonstrated by the Australian Senior Computer Clubs Association and others, carefully designed educational strategies that are sensitive to the needs and concerns of older people can avoid this happening, and they have successfully assisted many older people to become confident users of computers.

It is well established that, particularly when it comes to learning to use new technologies, older people often prefer a different learning style. Initiatives that are most successful tend to be ones that:

• involve peer education
• utilise existing community organisations and networks to which older people already belong
• are done in a non-threatening way, at a pace determined by the older person themselves
• offer practical hands on learning
• take into account some older people's lack of confidence in their ability to learn new skills, especially technical skills
• build on older people's other existing interests and hobbies
• are located in places that older people can get to easily, or better still go to anyway, and
• are inexpensive or free.

The various educational initiatives supported by banks are commended, but much more needs to be done. It is noted that the partnership project involving the Australian Bankers Association and various community groups is not continuing.

The upfront cost of computer hardware and software is also an issue for many older people, compounded by the rate at which both become superseded and unable to easily access or download current material on the internet. This issue has obviously been raised by several submissions to HREOC. It is a very significant barrier for many older people.

The COA believes that further efforts are needed to encourage government departments and businesses that are disposing of old (but not very old) hardware and software to make it available free of charge to seniors' organisations, other relevant community organisations and individual older people. (To be useful, hardware that is being disposed of, needs to be accompanied by appropriate software and a valid license to use it.)

The Committee looks forward to the final report of this inquiry. Please do not hesitate to contact the Committee (Senior Policy Officer, Margaret Tucker 02 9367 6860 or margaret.TUCKER@ add.nsw.gov.au) if we can be of any further assistance.

Yours sincerely

John Mountford

Chairperson